📘 Part 3: Learning and young children

This episode's vocabulary

Abstract#nbsp;(adj.) -#nbsp;if a statement, argument, or discussion is abstract, it is general and not based on particular examples.

Tone-deaf#nbsp;(adj.) -#nbsp;someone who is tone-deaf is not able to recognize different notes or sing tunes accurately.

Nuance (noun) - a quality of something that is not easy to notice but may be important.

Convey#nbsp;(verb) -#nbsp;to express a thought, feeling, or idea so that it is understood by other people.

Crucial#nbsp;(adj.) -#nbsp;extremely important or necessary.

Touchstone#nbsp;(noun) -#nbsp;an established standard or principle by which something is judged.

Rote learning#nbsp;-#nbsp;learning something in order to be able to repeat it from memory, rather than in order to understand it.

Abbreviation#nbsp;(noun) -#nbsp;a short form of a word or phrase.

Mnemonic#nbsp;(adj.) -#nbsp;something such as a very short poem or a special word used to help a person remember something.

Novelty#nbsp;(noun) -#nbsp;the quality of being new and unusual.

Abrupt (adj.) - sudden and unexpected, and often unpleasant.

Preserve (verb) - to keep something as it is, especially in order to prevent it from decaying or being damaged or destroyed.

Vaguely (adverb) - in a way that is not clearly expressed, known, described, or decided.

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Questions and Answers

M: Rory, why do children like learning songs and poems?

R: Well, I'm not actually sure it's a human universal, but most of them seem to. They probably like the rhythm and rhyme and they're quite catchy and memorable. So that helps them a lot when they have to, well, when everything else seems so abstract or unconnected to reality, that can be very useful, can't it?

M: What can people learn from songs and poems?

R: I imagine just about anything, to be honest. Lots of political and social commentary runs through music. You can recall different kinds of information. So it's a useful tool for memorization. And of course, there are various musical skills you can pick up. And I suppose you could learn if you're good with music or completely tone-deaf like me.

M: Do you think it's easier for children to learn a song or a poem than for adults?

R: Well, that's probably a matter of the complexity of the content and the time that you have to learn it. For example, when you're a child, usually you have more free time and focus in classes. You can get it faster. Though adults are more capable of nuance, so more complex meaning can only be conveyed by them.

M: Do you think that learning songs and poems is a waste of time?

R: I used to think it was, but now I'm increasingly coming to the conclusion that it might actually be crucial for teaching, which is actually bad news for me because I can't sing.

M: Let's talk about learning in school, how useful is it for school children to learn facts about the world like dates and history?

R: I think some key dates and events help people reference their cultural touchstones more effectively, though, memorizing your entire national history in some sort of, I don't know, rote learning format probably isn't very useful. That's what you have an encyclopedia for.

M: What are the ways which can help schoolchildren remember new information?

R: Well, we already talked about songs, but there are abbreviations and other mnemonic devices. Probably novelty in terms of information and media that would play a part too. For example, new information, and if it's presented in a new format, it's easier. It's more memorable.

M: Is it important to teach schoolchildren how to find or check information for themselves?

R: Oh, it's essential. I mean, you can't do all the thinking for them and they have to grow up at some point. It doesn't have to be as abrupt as saying now you find out everything for yourself, but like some small projects can be a useful starting point and then just expand from there.

M: Let's not talk about the value of knowledge. Should public money be used to fund museums today?

R: I didn't used to think so, but now probably, generally, yes, at least in part. If you think about it, like museums preserve part of a nation's culture and a nation is its culture, then it seems logical to do so. It's like self-preservation, really. Though there are obviously some drawbacks to this because you have to decide which things should be funded, in which things shouldn't. You can't give money to everything.

M: Do you agree that each generation depends on the knowledge acquired by previous generations?

R: Well, it doesn't come from nowhere, does it? Similarly, it's not the be all and end all. I mean, this gives them a foundation to move from, but they can't just sit on what's known. They need to push further.

M: Does society need more people with broad general knowledge or more people with specialist knowledge?

R: Well, I'm not sure it's helpful to phrase it in such black and white terms. It depends on the level at which we are asked to operate. I mean, for example, we all need a general understanding of the culture we're in to relate to each other effectively. But to fix specific problems in the world requires some specialist knowledge and a corresponding general awareness to understand what's happening. Vaguely, if not specifically. So the short answer is it depends on what you're talking about. And the long answer is you need both in order to have a functioning society.

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Discussion

M: Rory, thank you so much for your answers. So learning and young children, so when we talk about songs, poems, children learning songs we talk about the rhythm and rhyme. Nice rhymes.

R: Yes.

M: So the rhythm is pretty much like the beat.

R: Yeah, the rhythm is the sound and the rhyme is how the words sound similar to each other.

M: Yeah.

R: Well, that was quite profound, wasn't it. I just came up with that there.

M: It was. Yeah. Some songs are quite catchy, catchy songs.

R: So, a catchy song is just the one that gets your attention and stays in your head. Like a baby shark.

M: Yeah. Pink fluffy unicorn dancing on rainbow. So if you go to YouTube, if you type pink fluffy unicorn. Yeah, I'm talking about unicorns now. Pink, fluffy unicorn dancing on the rainbow. You're going to hear the song. And this song is pretty catchy. It's an earworm. So people do need some various musical skills, right, Rory? Or they can pick up this skills.

R: They can pick up skills, but sometimes they can't because they're tone deaf.

M: Like you.

R: Like me. I actually should say tone deafness is actually a medical problem. It's a medical diagnosis.

M: Oh, wow.

R: But some people just use it to describe the fact that they can't sing.

M: So a bear stepped on your ears.

R: For example, I did a test for tone deafness and I'm not actually tone deaf. I'm just really rubbish at singing.

M: But you're not rubbish at dancing.

R: I am terrible dancing.

M: And I'm telling you, dear listener, Rory an dance. He has some moves. Oh, yes.

R: I can't dance. I hate dancing.

M: Yeah. So people can be tone deaf.

R: Yes.

M: When you compared adults to children, you said that adults are more capable of nuance.

R: Yeah. So nuance is just a way of talking about more detail and complexity in something. You know, a good example is children see the color red and adults see, well, the shade as well. They don't just say red. They say like bright red, dark red, maroon.

M: Oh, wow. Yeah, nuance. And we can use this word in the plural. Right? So nuances. Nuances? Like the nitty gritty details. Learning in school. You mentioned some cultural touchstones.

R: I did, yes. So a cultural touchstone is just what generations have to be able to relate to each other. So you understand what's come before by this thing from the past, like Star Wars, for example. Lots of people use Star Wars to relate to previous generations. I also used a really long phrase that had lots of complex vocab, not vocabulary, but grammar in it, and it's multipurpose. So even if you don't get a question about this, you can still use it. So when you're asked, do you think learning songs and poems is a waste of time. I said I used to, but now I'm increasingly coming to the conclusion that it might be crucial for teaching.

M: Oh, wow.

R: So here we have used to add verb plus -ing form and the conclusion that. So it's like, oh God. Is that a relative pronoun?

M: Oh yeah. And then you go continue. Yeah, like which is.

R: So here, even if you're not talking about teaching and learning, you could always say like I used to think this, but now I'm increasingly coming to the conclusion that blah blah blah blah blah. And then you add in your opinion. So don't just say your opinion. Like give the full structure, and that will get you a band nine score. It will be fine.

M: Yeah. Quality. Yeah, you can write it down, this kind of skeleton of the sentence and then use it about any topic. Nice.

R: Nice.

M: So you talked about encyclopedias and this word could be tricky to pronounce and would say encyclopedia. You can repeat after me. Encyclopedias.

R: It's a big book of information.

M: Yeah. Or Rory is a walking encyclopedia. He can give us some facts on biology, history. He surely knows when the Second World War began. Ha ha ha ha. He just made a mistake with the dates. So now I'm picking on him. At school we have different learning formats and some people rote.

R: Oh, rote learning is just memorization. Yeah, it's like repeat, repeat, repeat.

M: Yeah, you don't even understand what you have learned, but you just like do rote learning. And it's some kind of rote format, meaning that you just memorize stuff without having any idea what's it all about.

R: Yes. Which is not a great way to learn. But there it is.

M: Oh, well. We can also use some abbreviations or other mnemonic devices. Mnemonic devices to help you remember certain information. Like, for example, pavement. So Russian listeners will understand me, so pavement, this is a word, and if we say "pey vino ment", it sounds like the policemen drink wine.

R: Nice. Or the way of remembering the order of the planets.

M: With abbreviations?

R: Well, no, with words. Mexican vultures enjoy making jam sauce using new plums. The first letter of each word is the is the corresponding the planet. So like Mexican - Mercury, Vultures - Venus. It goes all the way up to P for Pluto, even though Pluto is not a planet anymore.

M: Wait, wait. I can do it with your name. So Rory Duncan Fergus.

R: Rory Fergus Duncan-Goodwillie.

M: Oh God. Rory Fergus Duncan. OK, so you are RFDG. Yes.

R: Why don't you just call me RFDG. That's what we used to do in meetings.

M: Really?

R: We used to have just my initials in meetings because my name wouldn't fit in the box.

M: Oh, that what is was. I'm joking, yeah. OK, so now Rory is RFDG for me because I'm using some mnemonic devices to remember all his four names. Novelty is good. Novelty is something about new things. So novelty in terms of information, media.

R: Novelty is just something new.

M: Yeah.

R: It's the concept of newness.

M: Newness. I like that. Newness. "Roryness" I've just created a model verb. I've created a new phrasal verb to Rory off and now I have a noun. "Roryness".

R: But Rory off just means whatever you think.

M: Yeah. Whatever you want. Yes. It could mean anything. Yeah, it's awesome. So the value of knowledge. I like this sentence. If museums preserve a nation's culture then blah blah blah. So museums do preserve our culture. Preserve like save, like keep.

R: Well if they do that I don't think just because it's in a museum, it's preserved. They have to do things with it.

M: When we have your museum of "Roryness", it's going to be called the Museum of "Roryness".

R: It's going to be called ridiculous.

M: Yeah, so self-preservation. So museums preserve our culture and then we use this not verb, but a noun. Preservation. Meaning...

R: To keep yourself safe.

M: Yeah, yeah, self-preservation, you keep yourself safe.

R: Well, your culture preserves itself, or it should.

M: You can use questions when you answer the questions. For example, Rory said, well, it doesn't come from nowhere, does it? So it's a tag question.

R: I used it on purpose. Seriously, people, use your question tags to vary your pronunciation. This is the key to success.

M: Yeah, this is really cool. So the examiner asks you, like, do you agree that each generation, blah, blah, blah, and then I go, well, it doesn't come from nowhere, does it? Beautiful intonation goes up.

R: Would it go up or would it go down?

M: No, no, here it goes up.

R: It doesn't come from nowhere does it?

M: All right.

R: Because I already know the answer.

M: Yeah. Ok, ok. Yeah. So if you're given new information, if you're not sure it goes up but here Rory is sure. So he's stating a fact. So it's actually not a question, it just has a form of a question. So intonation goes down. It doesn't come from nowhere does it? Down. And then you said that it's helpful to see it in such.... Oh, I'm not sure that it's helpful to see it in such black and white terms.

R: And you could use that for any question.

M: Mhm. Yeah. Yeah. The examiner asks you a question and then you go like, well, it's not in black and white.

R: It's not black and white. Listen to me as I explain to you why it's not black and white.

M: Some of Michael Jackson's song. Yeah.

R: The question answers are not black and white, but what is black and white is the beginning and the end of the episode. And we have come to the end of the line.

M: Yeah, the bottom line.

R: That's another line from a song, isn't it? We've come to the end of a line. See, I can't sing.

M: Ok, so you do the singing. I'm going to do the dancing.

R: No. Anyway, that's all.

M: Thank you very much for listening. We hope that we've just jazzed up your vocabulary and now you know what to say in your speaking part three.

R: Bye!

M: Bye!

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