📘 Part 3: Parents and children

This episode's vocabulary

To navigate (verb) - to successfully find a way from one place to another.

Consumerism(noun) - the situation in which too much attention is given to buying and owning things.

Wasteful (adj.) - using something in a careless way and causing some of it to be wasted.

Guidance (noun) - help and advice about how to do something or about how to deal with problems connected with your work, education, or personal relationships.

Trial and error - a way of achieving something or solving a problem by trying a number of different methods and learning from the mistakes you make.

Dependency (noun) - a situation in which you need something or someone and are unable to continue normally without them.

To call the shots (idiom) - to be in the position of being able to make the decisions that will influence a situation.

Progressively (adv.) - steadily and continuously.

Scaffolding (noun) - a raised structure that supports workers and materials during work on a building.

Womb (noun) - the organ in the lower body of a woman or female mammal where offspring are conceived and in which they gestate before birth.

Struggle (noun) - a very difficult task that you can do only by making a great effort.

Inevitable (adj.) - certain to happen and unable to be avoided or prevented.

To pose (verb) - to cause something, especially a problem or difficulty.

Isolated (adj.) - feeling unhappy because of not seeing or talking to other people.

Ungrounded (adj.) - someone who is ungrounded makes bad decisions and says or does stupid things

To bare (verb) - to carry the weight of.

To embody (verb) - to be an expression of or give a tangible or visible form to (an idea, quality, or feeling).

Сut-and-dried (idiom) - prepared or settled in advance; not needing much thought or discussion.

Questions and Answers

M: Do you think there are too many rules for children to follow?

R: Oh, there are too many rules for everyone to follow, frankly. Our world's a very complex place to navigate. It would be better to teach them principles that they could apply generally like treating others as you would like to be treated. That's a fairly safe bet since very few people want to be treated badly. And if you give them a million rules to follow, how exactly are they supposed to remember them anyway?

M: Do you think children should have many toys?

R: Well, not really. It encourages mindless consumerism from an early age. I mean, if they just keep seeing their parents buying and consuming without end, what sort of lesson does that teach? It's pretty wasteful as well, not just of money, but of opportunities to use their imaginations. There are some great videos of kids using cardboard boxes for different things. And it looked like a lot of fun, in addition to being quite creative as well.

M: Do you think it's good for parents to help their children choose friends?

R: Assuming they're still actually children, then yes, it's fine to provide a little guidance. After all, children are still developing their understanding of how people work. So they can't just learn through trial and error. That's not to say that parents should take complete control of the process. Since that might create dependency if they're calling all the shots all the time.

M: How can parents help children to make decisions?

R: Ideally, leading by example, I suppose. If they show children how to make a good decision, and then progressively involve them in more and more of them, then that seems like a good way of scaffolding that development. For example, when choosing food, they could talk about the nutritional value of food and give the kids some options to pick from.

M: At what age should children start to make their decisions?

R: Well, they are human beings, so they probably start doing this automatically, as soon as they exit the womb, right? I mean, they're constantly choosing from an expanding range of behaviours that can be used in different situations. If, for instance, they decide to cry when they want food, and later they can choose whether to cry or to ask nicely, I think it might be better to talk about when they should start making more complex choices. But that wasn't really the question, was it?

M: What are some of the biggest challenges that parents face when raising children?

R: Not being a parent myself, it's hard to say with any certainty. But I think anything connected to overcoming fear is a big one. For example, the fear of having children and being afraid of being a bad parent. I think that's something everyone struggles with at some point. They might also have to deal with the changes that come with having children like less time for themselves and their friends. It's almost inevitable, now I think about it.

M: Do you think that parents today face different challenges than parents did in the past?

R: The shape of the challenges has probably changed, but not the essential nature. I mean, a million years ago, it was predatory animals, and now it's predatory people which pose a bigger problem. However, the issue of how to keep children safe still lies at the core of it and I imagine the principles for the solutions aren't much different either.

M: What do you think are some of the most important things that parents can do to help their children grow up to be responsible and successful adults?

R: Trying to avoid repeating the mistakes of the past is always a good one. So say your parents gave up their time with you to work and make money. But that left you a bit isolated and ungrounded as an adult. You would want to make sure you spent more quality time with your children, trying to teach them life skills that are practical, like cooking, or it's useful, like how to manage conflict should also be a priority. Though it seldom is in my experience.

M: What are some of the most effective discipline techniques for children?

R: I think that's a question people have been trying to answer for hundreds of years now. To be honest, it's less about techniques than things which are ongoing. By that I mean, barring some sort of severe condition, usually having a clear routine with equally obvious expectations about behaviour and consequences for poor choices, and rewards for good ones work quite well. I think it's important for adults to embody a good example of how to behave decently themselves if they're going to expect it of children. None of those are cut-and-dried techniques but guiding principles like we talked about before.

M: Thank you Rory for your answers!

Discussion

M: Parents and children is like a typical common IELTS topic. Okay? So they just keep using it over and over again. And typical questions about like, should children make their own decisions? Or no, when, toys, you know, dear listener. So this, yeah, so because it's a common topic, you might want to read a couple of articles online, on children, parents. Yeah. Just to be more confident in this topic. Because also, it may come up in IELTS essays. Right? So this is a very common topic. There are many rules for children to follow. So we follow rules. And Rory told us, our world is a very complex place to navigate. So we kind of we navigate in our world, like we navigate at sea, right, Rory?

R: Yeah, it just means to, to work in or to be in.

M: And then like, it would be better to teach children principles that they can apply in life. So we follow the rules. And we apply principles. And what principles? Principles like treating others as you would like to be treated yourself. So when you treat other people, you behave in a certain way towards them. Yeah? For example, like "stop treating me as a child". Like I'm 55 years old, and you behave towards me as if I were a child. So treat other people, right? And one of the principles is treating other people, treat others as you would like to be treated yourself. So that's a nice chunk. So you can learn it and use it.

R: And hopefully apply it in your own life, treat people how you would like to be treated. Do you not think that's a good rule for life?

M: Oh, yeah. Yeah, they should teach this at school.

R: Yeah, exactly. I completely agree with that. And I don't know why they don't do that.

M: If you give children a million rules to follow, can they remember these rules anyway? Maybe no. Yeah? So it's a nice structure. So if you give children a million rules to follow, they may not be able to remember all of them. Right? So what's the point?

R: It's a chunk as well. How are you supposed to blah, blah, blah.

M: Yeah, or you can just like ask a question, right? So if you give children a million rules to follow, how are they supposed to remember them? And it's a question. So that's fine. Without an answer. Yeah?

R: Yes.

M: It's not just like, oh, so, examiner, how exactly are they supposed to remember the rules? Come on, tell me.

R: Examiner probably agrees. Like, how are they supposed to remember that?

M: Children and toys. Many toys? And Rory says no, because it encourages mindless consumerism.

R: Mindless consumerism is just prioritizing the idea of buying things without thinking about it, really. And if you're just constantly buying things all the time with no specific purpose, then that's probably not good for anybody. Because, well, first of all, the money is going to run out at some point, and so are the resources. And it has consequences for the development of your imagination, like, oh, I don't need to think about anything, I could just buy my way out of this problem. And normally, you cannot just buy your way out of a problem. You have to like put in some work.

M: It encourages mindless consumerism from an early age. That's the collocation. So from an early age, the child wants to buy everything in a shop. And this becomes buying and consuming without end. Parents keep buying and consuming without end. So it's always like, buy and buy and buy and use and buy and use, yeah? All this, this. And then again, the question, what sort of lesson does that teach? It's wasteful, yeah? It's pretty wasteful.

R: It's extremely wasteful, if you're just buying things all the time. I say this as we have just had an episode about bags where I showed off a million kinds of bags, and where we got an episode about shoes, where we talked about, oh my god, different shoes are amazing. But all other kinds of mindless consumerism are totally immoral.

M: And then Rory gives an example where children use their imaginations. So for example, they can use cardboard boxes for different things. So they don't have to buy anything, right? So they just use cardboard boxes. You know like usual boxes, like you buy a TV and then it comes in a huge box. So children can use cardboard boxes for different things. Like and it's creative and there is no need to be wasteful, there is no need to encourage mindless consumerism, yeah? And to get your child an expensive robot, or like dolls, cars. Just give them a cardboard box. Okay? Oh, kids these days...

R: I'm being totally serious. You could just give them a big cardboard box and some pens and pencils, and they'll make a plane or a spaceship or a train. Ooh...

M: Is it good for parents to help their children choose friends? Oh boy... Yes, it's good. Yeah. Only parents should choose friends for their children.

R: A little bit. Like, you know...

M: Oh...

R: You disagree?

M: But how a little bit? Like, so my child and I, we just go into a school and then I go, okay, he's bad, she's good. Okay? Stay away from that girl. Definitely. Okay, maybe make friends with this one. Like, it's ridiculous.

R: No, you could... I mean, as an adult, you should be able to recognize when someone is probably not a good person to be friends with because it's a particular moment in their lives. And maybe they're not the best person to be around at the moment. And you can say like, well, it's your choice, but I really think this is going to happen. And I would like you to watch out for the signs a bit. But if you insist that I'm going to support your decision, but when it all comes crashing down around your ears, there will be no surprise. That's what I would say to my child in a nutshell.

M: Yeah, exactly. It's your choice, right? So you can kind of, like you warn the child but then you say it's your choice.

R: Yeah, if you say like that child bullying other children, and your child doesn't, and they want to be friends, you can say, listen, I don't think that they're going to treat you very well after some time. But if you really want to do it, go, go for it then. Just be mindful that this might not go entirely to plan.

M: So this is how we provide a little guidance.

R: A little guidance.

M: Tell them what to do.

R: No, a little guidance. It's just saying, I think this might not be the best plan.

M: And children are still developing their understanding of people. They can learn through trial and error.

R: Well, they can't.

M: They can't?

R: Yeah, they can't just do that. They can't just go around, like having problems and then moving on, not without stopping to think about why it was a problem to begin with. Otherwise, they just repeat the same pattern of bad decisions.

M: So if you learn something through trial and error, you try it, you make a mistake, you learn something from it, hopefully. And you can say that, I believe that parents shouldn't take complete control of the process of choosing friends. Right? So they shouldn't control everything. Because it creates dependency, right? So the child gets dependent on parents. Yeah? And this complete control is not a good idea. And parents could help children to make their own decisions by example. So they set their own example. They make good decisions. The child sees how parents make these decisions, and they kind of copy.

R: You can make a decision and take a decision. So what's the difference?

M: Ooh, take a decision. Yeah, to take decisions, to make decisions.

R: If you make a good decision, then you've created the choice for yourself. And if you take a decision, then it's one that's presented to you. It was pre made.

M: So pre made, so I give you choices. And you take a decision.

R: Yeah.

M: But if you make a decision, it's kind of like you come up with options, you come up with choices.

R: Collocations. It's not just because baby, there's a reason.

M: Sweet. If parents show children how to make a good decision, then they will make a good decision. Yeah? So it's a good way of scaffolding. Right? Scaffolding? Helping, supporting children. Scaffolding. Like, scaffolding, we see when a building is being built. There's this thing, like next to the building.

R: Oh, yeah.

M: That supports a building.

R: Yeah. But it's not there all the time. It's taken away eventually over time.

M: And parents can give children different options. So options, not variants, okay? And children can pick different options. So choose between them. Yeah? So give the kids some options to pick from. Another synonym for choose - pick. And then a typical IELTS question. At what age should children start to make their decisions? And Rory goes, well, they are human beings. So like they start making decisions when they are born.

R: Yeah.

M: And Rory used a very specific language so when children exit the womb, so when they are born, so when they exit their mother. Yeah? Like that.

R: That's the noise that's made.

M: And the child exits them.

R: You can tell that neither of us are parents. Because yeah, it's fine, just do it this way, no problem.

M: For instance, if children decide to cry when they want food. Yeah? So this is their decision. And then later, they may decide not to cry, but they can ask nicely. So they are given more options, they have more options.

R: Some adults cry when they haven't had food, like me.

M: We talk about raising children. Raise children or bring up children. Not bring down or to. No, it's bring up children or raise children.

R: We could also talk about a child's upbringing.

M: Upbringing, yeah, as a noun. And some of the challenges are connected to overcoming fear. So you have to overcome fear, you have to fight the fear of being, I dont know, not good enough, or some people are afraid of being a bad parent. So people have the fear of having children in general.

R: I think most people have a fear of being a bad parent. And that stops them from becoming parents.

M: And then people have to deal with the changes which come along with having children. So many people have to deal with the changes which come with having children, which pop up, which appear.

R: I'm definitely describing myself when I say that, because I was thinking about this the other day. I was like, if I had children, I couldn't go out and drink champagne.

M: Yeah.

R: That would be a bummer.

M: And we face different challenges. So as parents, we face different challenges. And the typical question is like parents today and parents in the past. So are the challenges different? And Rory told us that the shape of challenges has probably changed, but not their nature. Right? So the shape. What did you mean, like the shape of challenges, the shape of difficulties?

R: It's just how the challenge looks or what it is. So the whole thing is like, well, we talked about predatory animals or predatory people. Those are two different things, two different shapes. But the problem is still the same. It's like they're a threat to the safety of children, and they need to be dealt with.

M: Yeah. So the issue of how to keep children safe still lies at the core of it. So if something lies. Like lie, like you lie on your bed. So still lies at the core.

R: It's located.

M: It's located in the center of the problem. So the issue of how to keep children safe, yeah? Used to be wild animals, but now it's like wild, bad people. So children grow up, parents raise children, parents bring up children, and children grow up, right? They are babies and then become adults.

R: Or they become adult babies because they didn't grow up.

M: What did you mean, when you said ungrounded as an adult?

R: Just not very well balanced or stable people. Or they struggle a little bit with feeling connected to people, because their parents were never around when they were younger.

M: So kind of like isolated. When you're an isolated child, it's like an outcast. They're always alone, introverted.

R: Or they don't necessarily have to be alone, but they just struggle to feel connected to other people. If you're ungrounded. Like you have no solid thing to rely on.

M: If the examiner asks you a difficult question, you can say that, oh, I think that's a question people have been trying to answer for hundreds of years.

R: Well, it is. How do you bring up children? I have no idea.

M: So that's another strategy, dear listener. That's a question people have been trying to answer since prehistoric times, you know. And you want me to answer this question now?

R: You want to be done to this question, Mr. examiner? Seriously? Seriously?

M: Discipline techniques like punishment or some other strategies to discipline children. And Rory told us, barring some sort of condition, bar. What happens if you bar something, like a verb to bar?

R: It's another way of saying unless really, unless they had some sort of condition, then you can do this. So barring some sort of accident, this will be the case. So it's like if this doesn't happen, the world will be normal.

M: Could you give us another example?

R: Yeah, sure. Like barring a volcanic eruption in my hometown, I will be able to go into town tomorrow.

M: And about children?

R: Oh, right. Oh...

M: We're not talking about volcanoes. Children, Rory, parents.

R: Okay. So barring some sort of life threatening condition, most children will be able to go to school as normal.

M: Yeah, having a clear routine. So this could discipline children, rewarding them for good work.

R: Yeah. But the problem is, none of these things are techniques. Because techniques aren't like specific things that you do in the moment. Like with teaching, you have teaching techniques. It's like a specific thing that's done when you're teaching. But all of these things that I'm describing are things that happened over the course of time. You don't just wake up one day and say, ho-ho, today we're going to have a routine, and then tomorrow, well, it doesn't matter. Kind of has to be something that you do all the time, I think.

M: Yeah. But also like techniques, discipline techniques could be like to set limits, to set time limits, like, hear them out. So let the child speak, and just listen to the child. Give them your attention, catch them when they are doing something good. So this could be techniques.

R: Yeah. But that's got to be something that you do for a long, long period of time for it to work, you know.

M: Yeah.

R: Maybe it's how you do as well. The technique is a lot about how it's done.

M: Maybe like positive discipline, you know? Praise and encouragement, gentle discipline.

R: Not that you'd ever conscious advocating that.

M: Emotional coaching, when you teach the child something about emotions and feelings, you see. So it's everything like it's very gentle. Or punishments, yeah, good old punishment. Like you're grounded. So you have to stay at home for a week. Yeah. And also parents, adults should embody a good example of how to behave decently themselves, right? So set a good example, embody a good example of how to behave.

R: We do that.

M: And then like Rory told us like, these are guiding principles, right? So kind of may not be techniques, but like guiding principles. Yeah, dear listener, if you have your own discipline technique, feel free to educate the examiner on this.

R: Tell the examiner how to raise their children.

M: Yeah, like physical punishment, grounding. Grounding? When the your child has to say at home. Yeah? They do something bad and then have to stay at home. They're not allowed to go out. Yeah?

R: That's what Vanya does to us whenever we're badly behaved.

M: Yeah, or taking away privileges.

R: Also, something Vanya does when we were badly behaved.

M: You broke this. So no games for a week. Yeah? So you take something away from the child. On this positive note, dear listener, thank you very much for listening! Again, this is a very typical common IELTS topic in essays, in speaking. So please invest your time in learning more about this. Feel free to read some articles online. Okay? To think about your own answers. Use our vocabulary, grammar. Okay? Stay with us. And we'll get back to you in our next episode! Bye!

R: Bye!

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